Notes on deconversion: so, what changed?
It's a good thing we are a few glasses in at this point
Welcome back to my notes on deconversion series! Please make sure you have read parts 1 and 2.
We’ve come to the part of the story that I get a little cagey about, so it’s a good thing our server brought a bread basket, some ice water, and - what’s this? - oh, hot tea! Perfect. Let’s dive back in.
You: Okay, so …. I mean, I have a lot of friends who kinda just stopped going to church during the pandemic and haven’t been back, but not that many of them would say they aren’t Christian anymore, right? I feel like something huge must have happened. Because this all did change during the pandemic, right? Was it, like, pandemic politics and how some Christians were acting about masks and stuff?
Me: I meeeeeean, I didn’t love that! But actually, no. Even though this thing I’m going to tell you about next did happen post-2020, it genuinely didn’t have anything to do with “Christians behaving badly.” I’d been enduring that (and, I’ve been the Christian behaving badly sometimes tbh) for my whole life. I know lots and lots of Christians who were hurt, confused, and angry about other Christians refusing to mask and defying social gathering guidelines, but that was not my experience as a practicing Catholic at the time.
So what changed … well, our spiritual seeking slowed down quite a bit once we converted to Catholicism, but for Kyle especially, it never went away completely. We both picked up books from spiritual writers outside of Christianity during that time - you know, a lot of people were bored being at home and took up new hobbies. I guess Kyle kind of returned to one of his hobbies - intellectual stimulation.
You: Enneagram Five type shit!
Me: RIGHT?! Well, I remember this part so vividly. We were sitting on the back porch and he said, “Hey, I found this man, this teacher and writer from the 1950s and 60s named Neville Goddard. He has some really interesting ideas and stories about God and the Bible. Wanna hear what he had to say?” And that was my first step on this path away from religion.
You: WHOA. Wait, what? I’ve never even heard of this guy. I’m just … what?
Me: Okay, this is why I get so cagey about talking about this because it’s … a lot. It’s a lot, a lot. I’m trying to think about how to generally sum up his teaching and why it was SO HUGE for both of us.
So basically, Neville Goddard was this spiritual writer and teacher in the 20th century here in America. Well, he wasn’t born here, he was actually born in Barbados. He came to America, to New York City, in like the 20s, I think? The 20s or 30s. He originally came to be a dancer and performer on Brodway, and he did that for like ten years or so. But eventually, he crossed paths with this Ethiopian rabbi, a Jewish mystic, named Abdullah. Under Abdullah’s teaching, Goddard learned Kabbalah and other esoteric ways of reading the Bible and understanding spirituality.
You: Sounds groovy …
Me: I know, I fear this is where I lose most people. But also especially this next part: Neville came to understand and teach that the Bible is not literal, factual history.
You: Uh-oh.
Me: Yeah, he taught that the Bible is spiritual metaphor, that it’s … I’m trying to remember the phrase … “a psychological drama which takes place in this consciousness of man.” And I guess you could say that the main point of his teaching is that we are all God - we are all expressions of God, of I AM. And he taught Scripture - both the Old and New Testament - in a way that showed us that this is what the Bible was meant to help us understand all along, before it was sort of … codified? … into religion.
You: Whoa.
Me: Yeah.
You: So, tell me more. My mind is kind of reeling right now, especially because you guys were all pretty hard-core Catholic at this time, right?
Me: OH YES. When Kyle first started sharing these lectures and books with me from Neville Goddard, I was so so so resistant. In no way did I want to allow myself to believe any of this, and Kyle was super chill about it; he really had the perspective of “this is interesting to me and I want to learn more, but no pressure. I just find it fascinating.” Fast forward to 2025, and I quote Neville to him daily and I’m sure he’s regretful of his life choices. laughing
You: But so you were skeptical at first?
Me: I was skeptical, sure, because throughout alllllll of our spiritual wanderings, I could always at least cling to the Bible as the central Truth. Even if I felt confused or frustrated by what it says at times or, more than that, felt confused and frustrated by the way people interpreted it, the idea that the Bible was a living text that was concrete and accurate and true was just sooooooo central to everything in my spiritual life.
But here’s the kicker - beyond the discomfort I felt in questioning if the Bible was filled with real stories of real people, I was terrified of what going down this path might mean. I mean, think back to who I was in 2021. My whole entire personality, my “personal brand,” the thing that people knew me for was for being this very public Catholic convert. It was absolutely central to my identity! I cannot emphasize strongly enough the terror I felt even entertaining the thought of that changing. I would be so embarrassed!
You: Huh. Yeah, I can see that. It was a very public part of your very public life at that time. So why didn’t you just tell Kyle you weren’t interested in any of it and just keep living that happy Catholic life?
Me: That is a great question. There was this one thing I kept coming back to you over and over was Goddard’s reference to Luke 17:21 which is most often modernly translated as Jesus saying “the Kingdom of God is in your midst,” or “the Kingdom of God is among you,” but he quotes the King James which reads, “the Kingdom of God is within you.” And from there, he builds on the idea that is central to his teaching that there is no external God. God is within you. God is within each of us. Every single person - good or evil, rich or poor, old or young - every person is an expression of God, that we are all I AM.
You: Bro. You were right. This is a lot.
Me: And again, this is why it’s hard for me to talk about this!
You: Okay, well I’m still tracking with you. But I’ve got questions! So, this Neville Goddard guy, he talks about the Bible and God and Jesus and all of that, even though he doesn’t believe it really happened?
Me: Oh, definitely! He believes that real people existed who created and wrote down these stories that were handed down over time as a guidebook, like an extended spiritual metaphor. He spent hours and hours reading his Bible and contemplating it. He could quote Scripture like no other. He for sure believed it was true, just not literal.
And I just kept coming back to that question - what if the Kingdom of God really is within me? What if if God is not “out there, somewhere?” What if I am God and you are God and everyone around us is God? I read a lot of his books, which he put all of into public domain so that they would always be free and accessible to people. I listened to hours of his lectures on YouTube. And over time, it all started to click, especially his teaching about the Law of Assumption.
You: Is that like Law of Attraction?
Me: Yes and no, but mostly no. So, Goddard’s philosophy is that what we call “Christ” - the Messiah or Savior - is our “own wonderful human imagination.” He repeats that over and over and over in his material. So basically, we are saved by our imaginations, and more specifically, what we assume to be true in our imaginations.
So basically, what I assume to be true about the world - about myself, about others - those assumptions are mirrored back to me in my world. So whatever I create in my imagination, or you could even say my inner world since I know some people don’t jive with the word imagination, whatever I create and believe to be true within, that basically indicates the state I’m living in. And it doesn’t even have to be something good! He is known for saying, “an assumption, while false, if persisted in, will harden into fact.”
You: So like some “you create your own reality” type biz.
Me: Yes, essentially. But different from Law of Attraction because you don’t have to get into the whole vibration and alignment work. In Neville’s view of the world, your only work is to go within, create a vision of the state of being you want to be in, and then have faith that what you have created within will externalize itself in the world around you. The work is being loyal to what you have created within, no matter what.
You: Hmmmmm, okay. I have a lot more questions, like could you keep practicing Catholicism but also quietly investigate this Neville Goddard stuff? And gosh, yeah, a lot more questions. But should we take a little break?
Me: Yes! My legs are falling asleep. Getting old is so fun!
Thank you all so, so much for listening in on this part of the conversation. I know for many of you reading, this view of spirituality is suspect at best, and straight-up blasphemy at worst. I’m not here to convert anyone to Neville Goddard’s teachings, or to anything at all, really. I’m still just telling the story of how and why I no longer practice any form of religion, but I do consider myself to be deeply spiritual.
If you ARE curious about Neville Goddard, you can read any of his books (I recommend starting with The Power of Awareness) or listen to his lectures on YouTube. (Warning! With the rise of AI voices, many YouTube channels are claiming to publish Neville’s lectures but it’s just a bunch of spiritual teachings in Neville’s AI voice. You want to look for lectures uploaded years ago and that SOUND like old recordings! I always go to the channel 100Kwatt. Those lectures are authentic.) Finally, you can go to this Reddit thread which gives a line-by-line synopsis of some of his works.
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🫶 I don’t really have a last point, I just wanted to say thank you for reading!
I thought I would be more nervous sharing this publicly but my hands aren’t even shaking (much),
Meg
Next in the series:
Notes on deconversion: so what about Heaven and Hell?
Welcome back to my Notes on Deconversion series! Make sure you’ve read parts 1, 2, and 3.
((Hugs)), Meg! I've never heard of Neville Goddard and I would say I'm compelled to learn more, but honestly I think I've just gotten accepting that I am just me living in the world and that is enough.
I am loving this series Meg! Thank you for sharing your journey and what you have felt and learned over the recent years.