Welcome back to my notes on deconversion series. We’ve made our way back to the table after a short bathroom break, and look! Our server has filled our water glasses and our wine. Now, where were we?
You: So, your Catholic era??
Me: Yes! That’s right. Our time with Holy Mother Church. So by 2016-2017, we were just beyond exhausted with all things church. Not only were my husband and I each wrestling with trying to piece together what the Bible says about this, that, and the third, we also just could not for the life of us find a “church home.” We both were raised Southern Baptist, and we both agreed that just wasn’t the right fit for us anymore.
You: Was it one specific thing about being Baptist? Or just the whole deal?
Me: In all reality, I don’t remember! laughs If I had to pick just one thing, I think that it was during this time, we just really, really were over the emphasis of every. single. thing. being about sin. I don’t know if you remember this or not, but in 2010? I think?? Kyle and I each got to go on this retreat called Walk to Emmaus1.
You: Oh that’s right! Isn’t that one of those retreats where you are essentially cut off from the world for a few days?
Me: Yes! And it was awesome! It IS awesome! I always say if you are a practicing Christian and get invited to go on an Emmaus retreat, you should do it! So fall of 20102 we went on these retreats, and it was the first time either of us got to, well, first of all the first we got to experience liturgy. And this is a Methodist retreat, so it’s not even hard-core liturgy. But we loved that.
And it was also the first time either of us were in a spiritual context where there was so little focus on sin and repentance and blah blah, and the whole emphasis was truly on what we are called to as Christians. Believe it or not, that was the first time I ever heard the phrase that Christians are to be “the hands and feet of Christ”, doing the work of Christ in the world as His Body. And I was, what, 333 at the time? So I had been a Christian at that point for almost thirty years?! And this was like brand new information to me!
You: Wow. That is so interesting. So was the retreat a big factor in not wanting to be Baptist anymore?
Me: Yes. I would say probably the biggest factor. And it’s kind of sad, really, because our retreat sponsors went to church with us at First Baptist in that Oklahoma small town - there was actually a thriving community of Emmaus people at that church. It just somehow never translated into changing the culture of that congregation, though. So anyway, then we moved to OKC, and that’s when the real disillusionment with church began. We visited probably a dozen churches - Baptist, Methodist, Presbyterian, lots of nondenom. Nothing felt right. We couldn’t find what we were looking for, and tbh, I don’t even know if we really knew what we were looking for.
You: There’s a church on every corner in OKC! That’s kind of crazy that you couldn’t find one you liked.
Me: It was more than not finding a place we “liked.” We both just had this inner agitation with all of it. Lots of different churches but so much of it was the same. Our poor kids! They hated trying new churches all the time. Hated it. Kyle did, too. He has a lot of low-level anxiety in new spaces. And you know, I got pregnant with and had the twins in the midst of all of this, and it’s really hard to get not just one but two babies or toddlers to the right child care space and do all the registration for each church nursery. UGH. My heart is racing right now just thinking about how stressful that era was! I think I’ve triggered myself over here.
You: Okay, okay - so yeah. So you couldn’t find a church in OKC. So you stopped going altogether?
Me: Yep.
You: So how many years did you sit out?
Me: I guess four or five years total? And all the while, we were getting more and more angry and sad and bitter. We were so, so bitter about Christianity at that time. And I think that’s why when people ask if I am deconstructing now, I’m just like, babe. Deconstruction is so far in the rearview mirror, I hardly think about it anymore!
You: And then, what, you got a visit from the Catholicism fairy? laughing
Me: snort laughing Something like that! Well you know I did a whole deep dive of the story on Sorta Awesome, but essentially, do you remember how I always used to say I was a Catholic born in the body of a Baptist?
You: I’ve heard you say that many times.
Me: I know, I’m a nightmare! But maybe I sorta manifested actually becoming Catholic? Because in the fall of 2017, a crazy thing happened when Kyle was doing some research for a client of his at the time, and he went down a real Enneagram 5 learn-every-detail-about-everything rabbit hole and emerged saying, “I think we should look into the Catholic Church.”
You: That is so RANDOM. And also completely on-brand for your husband.
Me: RIGHT? So we reached out to the local parishes, we heard back from the deacon at St. Francis of Assisi. And by Easter of 2018, we had finished the classwork, made our first Confessions, and we were Catholic. And I was so, so happy! Remember how happy I was?
You: You were perma-smile, all the time. So happy.
Me: I was so happy and so relieved. When our deacon opened the doors to the Church - I mean that literally, we met him on the steps to St. Francis and he swung open the doors and it was so damn cinematic! I still get butterflies in my stomach thinking about it! - but, from that first moment, I finally felt like I had found my fit. And you know what, I think I know why. Have I ever told you about that dream I had that I think was actually me experiencing a past life of mine? Or at the very least a parallel life?
You: WUT
Me: Okay, I’ll come back to that. Put a pin in it. But yes, I was all in on being Catholic. ALL IN. Made monthly confession, taught RCIA, volunteered in the Adoration Chapel, veiled in front of the Blessed Sacrament … the whole thing. I was so open to life, I even got pregnant in my 40s and had myself a true Cradle Catholic!
You: And the world is thankful you gave us Niko!
Me: The world should be thankful and also terrified of Niko
You: But - and you know, I’m not Catholic - but I’m just trying to understand because you had said you had some big problems with the idea of Hell, and you were, like, so burned out on Baptists talking about sin all the time, but … Catholics believe in hell, right? And isn’t Confession for, you know, confessing your sins? I guess I’m just confused.
Me: It’s a little confusing, I know. Kyle and I were both so drawn to the idea of the Christian faith, undistilled. Unfractured, I guess you could say. We were obsessed with the history of the Church, of the Mass being something that was practiced in the same way across cultures, through all of Christian time, on every continent. It satisfied my husband’s need for intellectual foundations in religion. It spoke to my mystical heart with things like transubstantiation - the idea that we are receiving the actual body and blood of Christ at communion. And the miracles! Praying to saints! Marian apparitions! That is all extremely my shit!
It’s really hard to explain it with words now, but at the time, it really was like stumbling into an oasis in the desert. We were so, so burned out from chasing truth in Evangelicalism. And here’s the Catholic Church saying, “we have the Truth. We’ve been teaching and continuing on in the Truth for 2,000 years. You don’t have to look anywhere else. We’ve always been here, we’ll always be here.” It was just such a relief.
You: Do you still feel that way? Like, do you think the Catholic Church is the true church?
Me: Damn. Not you with the most loaded question of the night!!
You: Sorry! laughing I’m still just trying to figure out how you went from so happy being Catholic to now saying you don’t identify as Christian. Did you get mad at the Catholic Church or Christianity in general?
Me: Okay, so no. I know there is so much hate for Christianity right now, but that hate train is going to have to choo-choo without me. I have so much fondness now for Christianity in all of its forms.
So at this moment, I am grateful to the Catholic Church because I think, for me, it was the only place I could have received the spiritual healing that I really, really needed in coming out of Evangelicalism. I know that sounds a little nutty because the Catholic Church is not without its problems. But our time as practicing Catholics was so rich and deep and dear to me. I can’t imagine any other way or any other religious space where I could have received healing from my disillusionment and hurt outside of the Church.
You: Are you still mad at Evangelicalism?
Me: Not at all, actually. Because I’ve gone through some major healing, I can now say that I look at Evangelicalsim in the same way you might look at your hometown a few decades after you’ve moved away. Those people raised me! Those people offered stability that meant so much to me as a kid who had an incredibly chaotic and dysfunctional home life. Those people were doing, I believe, the best they could to put my feet on the path to heaven. And it might make your eye twitch when I say this, but now I believe my soul chose a life in which Christianity would play such a huge role.
Me: Mostly, when I think about Christianity, I feel gratitude. Like thank you for raising me, thank you for helping to form who I am, I just don’t fit here anymore, and it’s time for me to move on.
You: Well, that’s kind of beautiful.
Me: It’s kind of something, not sure most people would say beautiful!
You: So …. where do you fit now? And what happened?
Me: The server is hovering again. I have to pee again. Next chapter, coming up!
Thank you all for letting me share my notes on deconversion with you. The first installment of this series had some of the highest engagement of anything I’ve written for Gemini Wrongs. I know this is such a tender and personal topic for so many. Thank you for sitting across the table from me as I unravel this story with you.
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Still cringing over how many veils I showed off on Instagram,
Meg
I just checked Google to confirm - I know it was 2010 because that’s when Season 3 of True Blood came out and it had just wrapped up when I went on the retreat. It’s possible there’s a good reason all the emphasis on sin bothered me LOL 4EVER
whoa. Jesus year!
Not me almost SOBBING at your description of hometown love/evangelicalism. I am loving walking through this with you. I am resonating so deeply with this.
I don't remember how I came across Sorta Awesome, but I definitely remember that "sometimes we hate church" with Kelly was one of the earlier episodes I heard. I am Mormon and I was FLABBERGASTED that other people were having the same experiences that in the LDS church were often called a faith crisis. I loved the way that you and Kelly talked about it and it was really a blessing to my in my own faith journey. So thank you for that assist all of those years ago! I'm still a practicing Mormon, but my internal faith looks entirely different than it once did and is so much more expensive!